2.svjetski rat i sve vezano uz njega....

ian wright
ian wright
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04. listopada 2011. u 09:21
je, Englezi su krivi za sve
miha1
miha1
Dokazano ovisan
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04. listopada 2011. u 13:11
Svi su podjednako krivi.
Obrisan korisnik
Obrisan korisnik
Pristupio: 18.04.2006.
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04. listopada 2011. u 13:25
jel to vazi za wwII ili i za balkanske ratove 90ih?
Kauboj
Kauboj
Većinski vlasnik Foruma
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04. listopada 2011. u 13:35
Pa normalno, "za svaki rat je potrebno dvoje".
I am going to space, and when I come back I have to pick up poodle crap.
DavyJones
DavyJones
Potencijal za velika djela
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04. listopada 2011. u 18:19
ne dirajte ianu engleske lordove.....
[uredio DavyJones - 04. listopada 2011. u 18:20]
.........................................................Dinamo ja volim.................................................................
ian wright
ian wright
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06. listopada 2011. u 12:15
sto se Rommelove misije na sjevernom Jadranu tice, bilo je to u sklopu ojacavanja obrane na talijansko-jadranskom ratistu nakon pada Tunisa... Rommel je bio odgovoran za organizaciju obrane na sjeveru, a Kesselring za jug (tzv. linija Gustav s Monte Cassinom)

radilo se o jednoj od najvecih engleskih obavjestajnih podvala u ratu: uvjerili su Nijemce da se nakon istjerivanja Osovine iz Afrike namjeravaju iskrcati na istocnoj obrani Jadrana... Englezi su navodno otvoreno odustali od taktike iz Prvog svjetskog rata da se iskrcaju oko Soluna, pa prirodnim "autoputem" kroz dolinu Vardara i Morave napreduju kroz Makedoniju i Srbiju do Beograda, kljucnog strateskog i prometnog centra Balkana. Ideju je narocito zastupao Churchill, u svojem imperijalnom mozgu iz 19. stoljeca uvijek opterecen politicko-strateskim pitanjima, jer se bojao da ce Crvena armija doci do srca Balkana prije Engleza i time ih izbaciti iz igre u poslijeratnom razvoju (taj strah se pokazao opravdanim). Stoga se Winston nadao da bi iskrcavanjem na istocnoj obali Jadrana i brzim prodorom do Beca mogle spasiti Jugoslavija, Grcka, Austrija, u rat na njegovoj strani uvuci Turska, a vjerojatno bi od ruskog utjecaja bile spasene i Bugarska, Rumunjska i Madjarska (koje bi redom polozile oruzje, kad bi imale veliku saveznicku armiju iza ledja). No, brzo su mu njegovi vojni zapovjednici objasnili da je akcija toliko sirokih razmjera prakticno nemoguca, a i Amerikanci su bili protiv. No, ideja je postojala i dalje, pretvorena u fikciju i instrument obavjestajnog zbunjivanja Nijemaca: potkrijepili su je s nekoliko laznih dojava, najpoznatiji je slucaj kad je na spanjolskoj obali isplivalo tijelo obuceno u uniformu engleskog oficira, a koji je sa sobom bas slucajno nosio planove o predstojecem engleskom iskrcavanju na istocnoj obali Jadrana. Englezi su dobro znali da ce Franco odmah o tom cudesnom otkricu izvijestit Nijemce, a ovi su se uhvatili na mamac.

Zato je Rommel pojacavao obranu sjeverne obale Jadrana, usput protjerivajuci partizane i terorizirajuci domace civilno stanovnistvo i zato su Nijemci te '43 poduzeli dvije velike ofenzive, slavnu Neretvu i Sutjesku, kako bi ojacali vlastito zaledje u unutrasnjosti Balkana eliminirajuci otvoreno neprijateljske (Titovi partizani) i nepouzdane (Drazini cetnici) elemente

no, kako su engleski generali informirali Churchilla, istocna obala Jadrana je geografski krajnje nepogodna za iskrcavanje vecih razmjera i uz to ocekivanu sudbonosu promjenu ravnoteze u ratu. Ne radi se o nizini sjeverne Francuske, gdje mozes iskrcat 500 000 vojnika i 2000 tenkova i jurnut prema Rajni. Isto tako, dolina Rhone na jugu Francuske se duboko usijeca u unutrasnjost i kao takva pruza vojnicki rezon iskrcavanja bas na tom mjestu

S istocnom obalom Jadrana je sve naopako: nema velikih nizina niti dolina rijeka kroz koje mozes jurnut u dubinu neprijateljskog teritorija, planine se pruzaju paralelno s obalom i ima malo mjesta kroz koja se moze "provuci" neka velika armija, a sto se istovarnih kapaciteta tice, za veliki napor su bile sposobne samo luke Rijeka i Trst. I tako mozes izvest napad na tri tocke: na uscu Neretve, gdje te rijeka brzo odvede u Mostar i sta ja znam, Jablanicu i onda zapnes u bosanskim gudurama i sto ces tamo. Drugi pravac je u Ravnim kotarima, no onda naletis na Velebit, te nikakvu prometnu povezanost i dok se probijes prema dolini Une (koja je opet sama za sebe vrlo uska) nikakve koristi. Treca mogucnost je dakle iskrcavanje u Rijeci i/ili Trstu, no onda opet naletis na neprohodne i prometno izolirane planine odmah na izlasku iz grada. (u zaledju Trsta je dovoljno imat jednog Borojevica, pa da te drzi tamo ukopanog dvije godine)

No, trik je upalio i Nijemci su izdvojili dosta energije kako bi osigurali istocnu obalu Jadrana, narocito nakon kapitulacije Italije


Koliko geografija ima veliku ulogu u usporavanju uobicajene taktike i strategije u WWII svjedoci bas talijanska fronta, gdje je Saveznicima trebalo godinu dana da se od iskrcavanja na jugu cizme preko njemacke linije Gustav probiju do Rima, pa im je trebalo jos skoro godinu dana da od Rima preko nove njemacke obrambene linije - Gotske linije, dodju do nizina sjeverne Italije. Ni Apenine nije lako prijeci, bez obzira na neusporedivo guscu mreza prometnica u odnosu na istocnu obalu Jadrana
[uredio ian wright - 06. listopada 2011. u 12:31]
Obrisan korisnik
Obrisan korisnik
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17. listopada 2011. u 19:03
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/277962/Did-Adolf-Hitler-escape-




DID ADOLF HITLER ESCAPE?

Story Image


According to the book by Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams, Adolf Hitler escaped

Monday October 17,2011

By Adrian Lee

AS Russian tanks closed in on Berlin in 1945, two figures slipped away from the devastated Reich Chancellery through a secret tunnel.

Despite the shells bombarding the German capital the roads were still clear and sufficiently wide for a transport aircraft to land.

Soon the middle ­aged couple were safely on board a plane and captain Peter Baumgart began taxiing away. 

Although he was an experienced pilot and the take­off was routine, the pilot was ashen­faced and sweating. 

Perhaps, however, he summoned the courage to sneak a glance over his shoulder at his cargo. On board were Adolf Hitler and his mistress Eva Braun.

This sensational claim that the Nazi leader and his mistress fled Berlin at the end of the second World War to begin a new life in Argentina is made in the new book Grey Wolf: The Escape Of Adolf Hitler. 

The authors claim they have “compelling evidence” that there was a carefully orchestrated plot to spirit Hitler out of Germany once it became clear that the tide of war was turning against the Nazis.

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According to the book by Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams, Adolf Hitler escaped
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On April 27, three days before he is officially said to have committed suicide, the Führer agreed a body double to take his place. an unknown actress stepped in for Eva. 

According to the book by Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams the genuine Nazi leader and his mistress were first flown to Tonder in Denmark, where the party took a second flight to the Luftwaffe base at Travemunde. 

Changing planes again they boarded a Long­range Ju 252 and flew to the Spanish military base at Reus, south of Barcelona. 

From here General Franco supplied a further aircraft in Spanish markings to fly Hitler to Fuerteventura on the Canary islands.

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A day later he and Eva boarded a U-­boat, which was the signal for their doubles in Berlin to be executed.

Under heavy Russian gunfire their remains were incinerated in the garden. 

By the time the Russians reached Hitler’s bunker and found the fakes their real prey was deep beneath the atlantic Ocean.

The most audacious ruse in history was complete and it is claimed that Hitler spent his remaining 17 years living peacefully in a Nazi enclave in Argentina. 

A fortune in looted gold and jewellery, loaded on to the submarine during the escape, ensured that he wanted for nothing.

Gerrard Williams, a journalist and film director, says: “There is no forensic evidence that Hitler died in the bunker. The Nazi high command had been making plans since 1943 to get out of Germany and to set up a Fourth Reich, mainly in South America, so they had no need to die in Germany. There was a very effective route out of the country.

“We never wanted this story to be true but the horrifying reality is, we believe, that at the end of the war the most evil man in the world escaped from Germany and lived out his life in Argentina.”

It is known that Argentina was sympathetic to the Hitler regime – even supplying fake paperwork to help them escape from Europe – and became a haven for many prominent nazis after the war, evil men such as Josef Mengele, Adolf Eichmann and Klaus Barbie. 

The entire plan is claimed to have been masterminded by Hitler’s private secretary Martin Bormann and “Grey Wolf” was the codename for the Nazi leader.

The soviets always gave conflicting information about the discovery of the bodies in the Führerbunker and what happened in the chaos of the end of the war. 

The remains were said to have been buried but later exhumed and moved to different locations, apparently to avoid Hitler’s grave becoming a shrine.

However it later emerged that the Russians kept a piece of his skull with a distinctive bullet hole. The fragment was always said to be incontrovertible proof that Hitler had indeed died by his own hand in 1945.

Then two years ago archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni concluded that the skull really belonged to a woman aged under 40 and not Hitler, who was 56 when he supposedly died. 

Bellantoni also dis­ counted the possibility that the skull was that of Braun because she was said in reports from the bunker to have killed herself by taking cyanide and would therefore not have suffered a bullet wound.

Intriguingly, declassified FBi files from the late Forties also contain a reference to Hitler having escaped Berlin and begun a new life in South America. 

For almost 30 years J Edgar Hoover and his FBI maintained a detailed dossier on the Nazi leader and investigated any report that indicated he still was alive, including dispatching agents to Argentina on several occasions.

When US president Harry S Truman asked Joseph Stalin in 1945 whether Hitler was dead, the Soviet leader is said to have replied bluntly, “No”. 

As late as the Fifties US president Dwight D Eisenhower declared: “We have been unable to unearth one bit of tangible evidence of Hitler’s death.” 

At the end of the war the death of Hitler was a neat conclusion. It was not surprising that the world lapped up the stories of his suicide without asking too many searching questions.

Williams, who spent five years researching the book and made numerous visits to Argentina, says: “Everyone wanted to close the chapter very quickly because the Cold War was just starting. It’s only now Argentina is once more a thriving democracy that the real stories are coming out. The more files and reports we looked at, the more we realised the death in the bunker was a fiction.”

The book includes testimony from the pilot who “flew Hitler and Eva Braun out of Berlin” and a dozen other witnesses.

According to the book 53 days after leaving Spain by submarine the couple arrived off the Argentine coast, south of Mar Del Plata. The Führer and his mistress were quietly but enthusiastically welcomed.

Hitler would live there in a village in the foothill of the Andes until 1962, planning the rebirth of the Nazis. It is claimed that he and Eva did marry but separated in 1953 when she moved to Nequén.

The book also contains the testimony of bodyguards, cooks and doctors who claim to have worked for Hitler. The authors say they have evidence that pinpoints the exact house where he lived in Patagonia. A rather grand wooden chalet-style building, it must have reminded Hitler of the Bavarian Alps.

The Führer is claimed to have died on February 13, 1962 at 3pm. He was said to be demented but still clinging to his dream of Nazi domination.

There is a chilling postscript revealed in the new book. Before they separated Adolf and Eva are claimed to have had two daughters. According to the authors both are still alive in South America.

If this account is to be taken seriously Hitler’s bloodline survives with them.

allen
allen
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17. listopada 2011. u 20:08
nije nemoguce
po meni ta prica o hitlerovom smrti ima dosta rupa
on se ubio i onda su ga jos isli spalit...zasto? (ako je vec bio mrtav..i rusi samo sto nisu usli u bunker)
i onda kad su saveznici dosli njemci rekli da su te spaljene osobe hitler i eva......(malo dalje od njih goebbels,magda i djeca)
meni to ipak malo smrdi...a i tada prije 66 godina pitanje je koliko se to dobro tada moglo ustvrdit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP_nKHDFFbo&t NOVI VIDEO!
allen
allen
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Pristupio: 29.08.2006.
Poruka: 54.944
17. listopada 2011. u 20:19
evo pročitao...odličan članak,jedna od boljih koje sam čitao u zadnje vrijeme...i po mom mišljenju lako moguće da je točan (ne možda svi detalji...ali otrpilike da je to to)
vjerojatno su svi htjeli vjerovati da je Hitler mrtav pa su to prihvatili bez puno razmisljanja samo da to sve napokon bude gotovo jer je svima bilo dosta svega vezanog uz taj rat....(a opet neki ako su znali da je on pobjegao,mozda nisu htjeli priznat da neispadne da im je izmigoljio iz ruku....)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP_nKHDFFbo&t NOVI VIDEO!
Obrisan korisnik
Obrisan korisnik
Pristupio: 15.01.2005.
Poruka: 42.430
17. listopada 2011. u 21:59
Neda mi se citati clanak koji nije na hrvatskom, ali da je Hitler ziv, davno bi njega Zidovi negdje pronasli... uz to, postoje svjedoci njegovo samoubojstva i spaljivanja tijela, nije u bunkeru boravio sam kao duh.

Apsolutno sam siguran da su Zidovi jedno 100 tisuca puta preispitali njegovu smrt. Mozes misliti ulova, ziv Adolf Hitler, pa to bi bilo najvece sudjenje ne stoljeca, vec cijele povijesti.

A volio bih da je uhicen i da mu je sudjeno, samo da cujem sta bi imao reci.
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