https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paeonia_(kingdom)

Može li ovo biti početna točka u raspravi? S kojim se dijelom Stefane slažeš, s kojim ne?

izgleda sam retardiran  jos imam i dyslekcije. 

kako i da je poenta i dalje nisam svatio.

aj da te pomozim. dali smatras da smo paonci umesto makedonci ? ili da trebamo se zvati paonia ? 

kao prvo danasnije teretorija je stara 4.000 godina nakon ulaske filipa. zarem 4000 goine nije dovolno da se smatra makedonija. 1/3 je bio i deo kraljstvo na alek veliki.

drugo. 2/3 makedonaca koj danas zive u republika makedonija se begalci iz sjeverna grcka odnosno egejska makedonija.

ako pogledash makednski dna dnk je dosta slicna grcki dnk i dna. nije cudno vecina se begalci iz egejska makedonija. ostao je samo 10.000 tamo.

tako da makedonci koj zive u mkd i te kako imaju koliko toliko veze sa alek veliki po krvi.

1/3 se srbi. koj su bio deo kolonizacije programu na kralja aleksandar kraljstvo yugoslavija. inace tito kasnije ih asimilirao ko makedonci dobio imena ski umesto ic.

vardarska banovina. kolonizacije srbi od strane nova gazda. toa je bio standard taj vremena. isto kako sta grka nosio grci iz atina u egejska makedonija popuniti prazni mesta nakon sta otjerao makedonci.

inace bogomdani wikipedija je srajne. pise ko ce stigne. odlicno mesto za propagandi.

nikola jokic zapjevao dali ima poubavo devojce od makedonce 😎

link i video https://www.gol.mk/kosharka/jokikj-se-kachi-na-stolche-peshikj-ja-peeshe-makedonsko-devojche-na-proslavata

uz to jokara popio i pivo kada pratio svoi omiljeni kojni https://www.gol.mk/tajm-aut/shto-pravi-jokikj-den-po-bronzata-dolna-maica-pivo-vo-raka-i-konji

Wikipediju sam spomenuo kao polazišnu točku, možda se i ja ne slažem sa svim, ali čisto da vidimo s čime se u članku slažemo

Evo, ovu etnogenezu Makedonaca koju si spomenuo uopće nisam nikada čuo. Ali, poznato mi je, iz same wikipedije (!) da Solun dok nisu Grci došli tu 1912. uopće nije bio grčki grad ni blizu po sastavu svojeg stanovništva, tako da me i ne bi iznenadilo to o čemu pričaš da je 1/1

No, dovraga, netko je živio u toj dan.Makedoniji i prije balkanskih ratova, i nije sigurno nigdje otišao?

Peonija/Makedonija to mi nije uopće bitno, niti mi je namjera vama pametovat kako ćete se zvati. Ono što mi jest zanimljivo je ta povijest prije Filipa II. - a smatram da nije baš točno da su ondašnji Peonci i ondašnji Makedonci bili Heleni jedni i drugi. Sve su to teorije, a koja je točna? Meni se, zbog genetskih istraživanja, čini da ste vi današnji Makedonci, možda prije potomci nekadašnjih Peonaca, koji su opet bili dominantno Tračani, a ne Heleni. Po meni je pitanje i koliko su Makedonci u doba Filipa II. bili Heleni, a koliko helenizirani Tračani.

Opet, tko bi bili sad ti Tračani? Slijedom opet tih suvremenih genetskih istraživanja, koja ne moraju biti točna, ali mogu biti znakovita, prastanovnici jugoistočne Europe, i dominantno preci današnjih Bugara, Makedonaca i Rumunja, pa dalje na sjever, na zapad možda do Morave, najbliži opet Ilirima, koji su bili njima na zapad, a koji su dominantno preci dan. Hrvata, Bošnjaka i Srba. Albanci su tu kao neka vrsta uljeza, a Grci su opet svoja priča, najsličniji genetski suvremenim Turcima.

To da su Albanci Iliri, značilo bi da su Iliri zapravo došli iz Magreba, iz sjeverne Afrike, što po meni nema smisla.

Evo i ta neka karta u idućem postu:

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fy-dna-haplogroups-in-europe-v0-cauruwt0v29b1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Db17cdba461ef76fa9d73deb3bd1b9be9ca6ae542

Zalijepio bi i samu sliku ali ne uspijevam :(

kakvo ilirci i albanci kakvi bakraci.ne pricaju ni isti jazik. albanci su dosli iz kaukasa. a sada za da danas pasuje geo politicki nekoj odlucio dani shiri sranje o iirica. nema niti jedan, niti jedan dokaz da albanci ima bilo kakve veze sa ilirci. 

dok nema dokaz ne bi trebao oni da ima pravo shiriti propaganda.

Little is known about the relationships between Illyrian and its neighboring languages. For lack of more information, Illyrian is typically described as occupying its own branch in the Indo-European family tree. A close relationship with Messapic, once spoken in southern Italy, has been suggested but remains unproven. Among modern languages, Albanian is often conjectured to be a surviving descendant of Illyrian, although this too remains unproven. In the early modern era and up to the 19th century, the term "Illyrian" was also applied to the modern South Slavic language of Dalmatia, today identified as Serbo-Croatian. This language is only distantly related to ancient Illyrian, as they share the common ancestor Proto-Indo-European; the two languages were never in contact as Illyrian had become extinct before the Slavic migrations to Southeastern Europe with the possible exception of the ancestor of Albanian.

veca veze ima hrvati i srbi sa ilirci.

he relationship between modern Macedonians and ancient Macedonians, particularly in terms of DNA, is a topic of interest in both historical and genetic studies. Genetic research often looks at the continuity of populations over time, and while modern populations in the Balkans—such as those in North Macedonia—may retain genetic similarities to ancient populations in the region, it's important to note that demographic changes over centuries, including migrations, conquests, and mixing with other groups, have influenced everyone's genetic makeup. Studies of ancient DNA have provided insights into the genetic structure of populations in the Balkans. While ancient Macedonians can be linked to certain genetic markers, modern populations also exhibit variations due to historical changes that occurred over millennia. In summary, while there may be genetic continuity between modern Macedonians and ancient Macedonians, it is also essential to recognize the complexities and changes that have occurred over time. Genetic studies aim to map these relationships, though they can vary based on the specific methods and populations studied.

The short answer is that modern Macedonians do not have the same DNA as Alexander the Great, but rather, they share a significant amount of DNA with him. Here's why: Alexander the Great was born in Pella, Macedonia, and his family was part of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedon. The DNA of Alexander's ancestors, including his parents and grandparents, would have been influenced by their genetic makeup as Greeks and Macedonians. Modern Macedonians, on the other hand, are a mix of various ethnic and genetic groups that have contributed to their ancestry over the centuries. The modern Macedonian population is a result of the interaction between ancient Macedonians, Slavs, Greeks, and other ethnic groups that have settled in the region. Studies have shown that modern Macedonians have a significant amount of genetic continuity with ancient Greeks and Macedonians. For example: A 2010 study published in the journal "European Journal of Human Genetics" found that modern Macedonians have a higher percentage of Greek DNA (around 25%) compared to other Balkan populations. A 2017 study published in the journal "PLOS ONE" found that modern Macedonians have a significant amount of genetic admixture with ancient Greeks and Macedonians, with an estimated 30-40% Greek ancestry. A 2020 study published in the journal "Scientific Reports" analyzed DNA samples from ancient Macedonian individuals and compared them to modern Macedonian populations. The study found that modern Macedonians have a significant amount of genetic continuity with ancient Macedonians, with an estimated 20-30% shared DNA. These studies suggest that modern Macedonians do not have the same exact DNA as Alexander the Great or his ancestors, but rather, they share a significant amount of genetic material with them. This is due to the fact that modern Macedonians are a mix of various ethnic groups that have contributed to their ancestry over the centuries. It's worth noting that the concept of "DNA" has changed over time, and our understanding of genetics has improved significantly. Therefore, it's possible that future studies may provide more nuanced information about the genetic makeup of Alexander the Great and modern Macedonians.

The question of whether modern Greeks share the same DNA as Alexander the Great is a complex one. Alexander the Great was born in Pella, Macedonia, around 356 BCE, and his ancestry was a mix of Greek and Macedonian royal blood. Modern Greeks, on the other hand, are a mix of various ethnic and genetic groups that have contributed to their ancestry over the centuries. Studies have shown that modern Greeks do not have the same exact DNA as Alexander the Great or his ancestors. However, they do share a significant amount of genetic material with ancient Greeks and Macedonians. Here are some key findings: A 2017 study published in the journal "Scientific Reports" analyzed DNA samples from ancient Macedonian individuals and compared them to modern Greek populations. The study found that modern Greeks have a significant amount of genetic continuity with ancient Greeks and Macedonians, with an estimated 20-30% shared DNA. A 2019 study published in the journal "European Journal of Human Genetics" analyzed DNA samples from ancient Greek and modern Greek populations. The study found that modern Greeks have a significant amount of genetic admixture with ancient Greeks, with an estimated 40-50% shared DNA. A 2020 study published in the journal "PLOS ONE" analyzed DNA samples from ancient Greek and modern Greek populations. The study found that modern Greeks have a significant amount of genetic continuity with ancient Greeks, with an estimated 30-40% shared DNA. These studies suggest that modern Greeks do not have the same exact DNA as Alexander the Great or his ancestors, but rather, they share a significant amount of genetic material with them. This is due to the fact that modern Greeks are a mix of various ethnic groups that have contributed to their ancestry over the centuries, including ancient Greeks, Macedonians, Slavs, and other ethnic groups. It's worth noting that the concept of "DNA" has changed over time, and our understanding of genetics has improved significantly. Therefore, it's possible that future studies may provide more nuanced information about the genetic makeup of Alexander the Great and modern Greeks. In conclusion, while modern Greeks do not have the same exact DNA as Alexander the Great or his ancestors, they do share a significant amount of genetic material with ancient Greeks and Macedonians. This genetic continuity is a testament to the enduring cultural and historical ties between ancient Greece and modern Greece.

Macedonians and Bulgarians do not have the same DNA, although they share a common Slavic ancestry and are geographically close. Studies have shown that the genetic makeup of the two populations has been shaped by different historical events, migrations, and cultural influences. Here are some key differences: Ancient DNA: Research on ancient DNA from the Iron Age and Medieval periods suggests that the Macedonians were more genetically connected to ancient Thracians and Greeks, whereas Bulgarians were more closely related to ancient Slavs and Proto-Bulgarians. Y-DNA: Studies on Y-chromosome DNA (passed down from father to son) have found that Macedonians have a higher frequency of Haplogroup R1b, which is common in Western Europe, while Bulgarians have a higher frequency of Haplogroup R1a, which is common in Eastern Europe. mtDNA: Research on mitochondrial DNA (passed down from mother to child) has found that Macedonians have a higher frequency of Haplogroup H, which is common in Greece and Turkey, while Bulgarians have a higher frequency of Haplogroup U, which is common in Eastern Europe. admixture: Both populations have undergone significant genetic admixture with other groups throughout history. For example, Macedonians have been influenced by Greek and Turkish genetic heritage, while Bulgarians have been influenced by Slavic and Ottoman Turkish genetic heritage. These differences reflect the complex and diverse history of the region, including the migrations of various ethnic groups, the rise and fall of empires, and the cultural exchange that has shaped the modern-day populations of Macedonia and Bulgaria. It's worth noting that while there are genetic differences between Macedonians and Bulgarians, there are also many similarities and shared genetic heritage. Both populations share a common Slavic ancestry and have been influenced by similar historical events and cultural exchanges.

You're referring to the ancient Macedonians! Yes, the ancient Macedonians, who lived in the region of Macedonia in the 5th and 4th centuries BCE, are often described as being relatively short in stature. This is based on various accounts and archaeological findings. One of the most famous accounts of the physical characteristics of the ancient Macedonians comes from the Greek historian Plutarch, who wrote that they were "small and dark" in complexion. This description was likely influenced by the fact that the Macedonians were a group of people who lived in the northern part of Greece, where the climate is generally colder and more rugged than in other parts of the country. Archaeological evidence also suggests that the ancient Macedonians were relatively short in stature. For example, excavations at ancient Macedonian sites such as Vergina and Pella have uncovered skeletons with an average height of around 150-175 cm, which is significantly shorter than the average height of modern Greeks.

Another interesting topic! The Macedonians in Western Bulgaria , in the region Pirin Macedonia , also known as the Macedonian minority, have a unique cultural and linguistic identity. While there are many similarities between the Macedonians and the Bulgarians, there are also some differences that are reflected in their physical characteristics, customs, and traditions. Regarding the physical characteristics of the Macedonians in Bulgaria, it's true that they are often described as having a shorter stature compared to other ethnic groups in Bulgaria. This is largely due to their genetic makeup and the historical factors that have shaped their population. Studies have shown that the Macedonians in Bulgaria have a higher frequency of genes associated with shorter stature compared to other ethnic groups in Bulgaria. This is likely due to their geographic location and historical isolation, which has resulted in a relatively homogenous gene pool. According to various studies and reports, the average height of Macedonians in North Macedonia and  western Bulgaria is generally lower compared to other European populations. Here are some approximate average height values for Macedonians in North Macedonia and Bulgaria: Macedonians in North Macedonia: Men: 170.5 cm (5 ft 7.1 in) (Source: WHO, 2019)

bogomdani. kako objasnis ovo da anticki makedonci bio niski narod a danasnije makedonci niski narod.

both are short people. kako objasnis da ostale u regiona are tall people.

u zapadna bugarska pirinska makedonija zive 190.000 makedonci pa nije ni cudno da pricaju ko nas u pirinska makedonija.

mi smo potomci alek veliki. grci su nama otjerao od tamo. egejska makedonija pripada makedonaca isto ko 80 procent stari imoti tamo. shumi, livadi, kuci, itd.

Pa ja i tvrdim da postoji kontinuitet od preko 2500 godina, pitanje koliki, ali smatram da postoji

Po genetskoj karti koju sam stavio, a sve koje sam pronašao su li-la samo je ova najdetaljnija i pokazuje i manje nacije, Makedonci imaju najveću genetsku sličnost s današnjim Bugarima, odnosno stanovništvom koje tamo živi.

To se kosi s tvojim člankom koji si stavio, mada sličnosti s Grcima postoje. Mislim da su najsličniji Grci antičkima oni na Kreti i Cipru (pogledati sliku). Od njih odudaraju moderni Grci, a još više moderni Makedonci.

Onako kako je moderno stanovništvo Bugarske i Makedonije slično, slično je i kopnene Grčke i Turske, po karti, što je zanimljivo.

U tom članku se spominje "significant amount" pa kaže da je to 30%, dobro, a koje to skupine? R1b? J2? Mislim, kako su došli do tog postotka, koliko su antičkih Makedonaca uzeli za primjer? Pa koje? Vladajuću kuću ili i običan narod? Meni to zvuči (pre)nategnuto sorry