Wimbledon 2009
Jimmy Connors:
“U modernom tenisu ste stručnjak za travu, stručnjak za beton, stručnjak za umjetnu podlogu. Ili ste Roger Federer.”
Rod Laver:
“On ima toliko udaraca, toliko talenta. Nevjerojatno je da jedna osoba ima sve to.”
Bjorn Borg:
“Jednostavno, Federer više nema slabih strana. Ne vjerujem da postoji udarac koji ne može izvesti s bilo kojeg dijela terena.”
Tiger Woods:
“Ono što je on napravio u tenisu je više od onoga što sam ja napravio u golfu.”
John McEnroe:
“On je najtalentiraniji igrač kojeg sam vidio, a igrao sam protiv mnogih. Mogao bi biti najbolji svih vremena.”
Hugo Chavez :
"Ipak nije pipkao Naomi Campbell kao ja..."
Serena Williams:
“Tako je graciozan. Mnogo sam naučila od njega.”
“U modernom tenisu ste stručnjak za travu, stručnjak za beton, stručnjak za umjetnu podlogu. Ili ste Roger Federer.”
Rod Laver:
“On ima toliko udaraca, toliko talenta. Nevjerojatno je da jedna osoba ima sve to.”
Bjorn Borg:
“Jednostavno, Federer više nema slabih strana. Ne vjerujem da postoji udarac koji ne može izvesti s bilo kojeg dijela terena.”
Tiger Woods:
“Ono što je on napravio u tenisu je više od onoga što sam ja napravio u golfu.”
John McEnroe:
“On je najtalentiraniji igrač kojeg sam vidio, a igrao sam protiv mnogih. Mogao bi biti najbolji svih vremena.”
Hugo Chavez :
"Ipak nije pipkao Naomi Campbell kao ja..."
Serena Williams:
“Tako je graciozan. Mnogo sam naučila od njega.”
X
Marušiću,ku**a ti ne kužiš u tenisu
Ono što je nekad bilo bolje je to da su mlađi ljudi bili bolje odgojeni i nisu ljeta provodili na internetu već su ganjali strankinje po Jadranu.Sve drugo bolje je danas.
Federer,genijalni Federer, imao je sreću (ili nesreću) da u zenitu svoje karijere (2003.-2006.)igra s potonulim Hewittom,prejebanim Safinom,polovnjakom Roddickom,polovnjakom Phillipoussisom i ostarjelim Agassiem.Nadala,Đokovića i Murraya tada bilo nije.I nikada nećemo saznati što bi bilo kad bi bilo ali stoji da,ponovit ću-genijalni i sjajni RF,pravu vrhunsku konkurenciju dobiva tek 2007.
S druge strane,Borgu je stalno u vrat puhao McEnroe,obojici Connors;i obratno.Tri vrhunska pa se ti opusti.Još i Lenda da ne zaboravim,koji je igrao 8 finala US za redom.
Agassiu je u vrat puhao Sampras,i obratno.Sve su to vrhunski igrači.
Ovi protiv kojih je,sjajni i genijalni RF,ostvario 7,8 ili 9 od svojih 15 GS,nisu igrači tog ranga.
ps-iz istih ili sličnih razloga,po meni-a znam da se mnogi neće složiti,velike je rezultate ostvario i Edberg koji do kraja karijere nije naučio osnovni udarac u tenisu-forehand.Dva puta dobio je po Duhu svetom i da sam ne zna kako (prehebanog i mentalno odsutnog) Beckera u finalu W,iako je u međusobnim omjerima bilo nekih 20:3 za njemačkog genija
[uredio bojangles - 07. srpnja 2009. u 14:53]
Because of a few songs wherein I spoke of their mystery-women have been exceptionally kind to my old age
Da Federer nekima ovdje kaže u lice "Ja sam 100x bolji tenisač od tebe" većina bi valjda i to protumačila kao bahatos koja drskost, tko je on da mi tako kaže i uopće nije istina šta bi tek rekli da ste žijveli u doba Muhameda "I'm so goood I make medicine sick" Alia. Postoji razlog zašto sve sportske legende ostavljaju dojam bahatosti, osim što im se ljudi ulizuju i kliču njihovo ime oni moraju imati tu dozu drskosti inače ne bi ostvarili tako velike uspjehe, vi bi valjda hjteli da on kaže "Ma tih 15 slamova je slučajnsot, osvojio sam ih jer sam imao sreće" no to nije istina tako da bi vi htjeli da laže vjerojatno, to se zove lažna skromnost ili licemjerje. Većinu stvari koje govore su ionako točne, oni i jesu najbolji. No najsmješnije od svega jest što uopće ne bi stavio Federera u tu bahatu grupicu sportaša, ni blizu, više je gentleman što i potvrđuje dosta novinara i komentatora.
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
Evo za bojanglesa koji je prelijen da odvrti par stranica unatrag.
Why this is not a weak era.
I
know this has been argued again and again, but it really is a
disrespect to every player on tour right now to say this is a weak era.
It is also an absurd argument against Federer being the GOAT. There are
three major reasons for this:
1. A player's draw looks better decades later than it does at the time.
This is because we do not know the success that young players playing right now might have. For instance, right now, Federer beating Murray in the 08 US Open finals looks respectable but nothing special. However, Murray is young and I fully expect that he will win 3-6 grand slams in his career. If that happens, Federer's victory over him suddenly looks a lot better. Basically, the point is that the players Federer is beating now will have success later, and thus those victories will look better in the future, just like victories of players like Sampras and such look better after time.
Let me illustrate this again with another example. In 2003, Nalbandian beat Federer in the 4th round of the Australian Open. At the time of that victory, some people on here probably would've said "Federer is a clown who hasn't been beyond the quarters of any slam and it still took Nalbandian 5 sets." In retrospect, that victory looks VERY impressive. Federer's victories now will be similar in many cases.
2. It is inherently illogical to say that a player can't be the greatest because he dominated players who haven't won many slams.
This is rather obvious but doesn't occur to many people. If you dominate an era, that means you are winning just about every slam. This means that no matter how good the other players are, they won't rack up lots of slams. That doesn't show that the other players aren't good. It simply shows that the dominating player is far better.
Here's the example I haven always given. Let's say that somehow there was a perfect tennis player created. This perfect player plays in an era with Federer, Sampras, Laver, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Agassi, Becker, Edberg, and Wilander. Obviously, this is an ABSURDLY strong era. However, this is a PERFECT tennis player, so he still wins about 3 slams a year, leaving none of those 10 all time greats with many slams. Does this make those players weak? Absolutely not. Number of slams won is NOT solely indicative of a player's ability, but rather how much better he is than those around him. In our case, Federer was so much better than everyone else (except on clay where Nadal was better than everyone else) that no one else got many slams. That does NOT mean they are any worse than players in previous eras who did win slams.
Let's delve into this a bit more.
- Federer beat Marat Safin 4 times in slams. Safin would probably have 3 or 4 slams instead of 2 if Federer wasn't there.
- He beat Lleyton Hewitt 6 times at high rounds of slams. Hewitt would probably have about 5 slams if Federer wasn't there.
- He beat Andy Roddick 7 times (probably will be 8 after tomorrow) in the quarters or above of slams. Roddick would have won these slams without Federer there. He would probably have 6 or 7 slams overall (especially given this Wimbledon) if Federer wasn't there.
- He beat Nalbandian 3 times in high rounds. I think Nalbandian would have won a slam or two without Federer.
- Federer has probably robbed Haas of 1 or 2 slams as well.
- He has already beaten Djokovic 3 times at high levels of slams, so I would say Djokovic would probaby have 3 slams already without Federer.
- Del Potro and Murray are just getting started, but both would probably have slams (09 FO and 08 US respectively) if Federer wasn't there.
Basically, the point is that without Federer, these players who people say are bad because they didnt win many slams WOULD have won many slams. They WOULD be considered great. To say that Federer's opponents were weak because Federer always won is tantamount to saying "Federer is not the greatest because he dominated everyone too much." It is ridiculous.
3. Right now the lower ranked players are better than in years prior. This makes the higher ranked players SEEM less good when they are not.
The fact is that the level of the lower ranked players in this era is undoubtedly better than in years past. Anyone, including Pete Sampras, would/does agree with this. This means that it is way easier for a top player to lose in early rounds of a slam, because they are simply facing higher quality players in early rounds. What this means is that it is a lot harder for any single player to consistently get to higher rounds of slams. As a result, the top players dont SEEM as consistent as top players in previous decades because they have lost early sometimes. For this reason, people here call those top players lame. That is not the case. It is just that the difference between top ranked and lower ranked players is not as big as before. That does NOT in any way mean that the top ranked players are not as good as previous decades' top ranked players.
CONCLUSION: In today's era there is a smaller gap between top players and lower ranked players. This makes it harder for the top players to look consistent. Furthermore, Federer has been so far ahead of everyone (except Nadal) that even the more consistent players didnt win many slams, as Federer took them. These things BY NO MEANS show that today's top players are weak. It simply shows that the overall talent pool is higher AND that Federer was head and shoulders above everyone else. The idea that his opponents were weak is basically saying "Since he was better than everyone in his era, he must not be the best ever." What I just said applies mostly to the older players that Federer beat. In terms of up and coming players, Federer's victories over them will look more impressive in many years after they are retired with many victories to their names too. This is not a weak era.
1. A player's draw looks better decades later than it does at the time.
This is because we do not know the success that young players playing right now might have. For instance, right now, Federer beating Murray in the 08 US Open finals looks respectable but nothing special. However, Murray is young and I fully expect that he will win 3-6 grand slams in his career. If that happens, Federer's victory over him suddenly looks a lot better. Basically, the point is that the players Federer is beating now will have success later, and thus those victories will look better in the future, just like victories of players like Sampras and such look better after time.
Let me illustrate this again with another example. In 2003, Nalbandian beat Federer in the 4th round of the Australian Open. At the time of that victory, some people on here probably would've said "Federer is a clown who hasn't been beyond the quarters of any slam and it still took Nalbandian 5 sets." In retrospect, that victory looks VERY impressive. Federer's victories now will be similar in many cases.
2. It is inherently illogical to say that a player can't be the greatest because he dominated players who haven't won many slams.
This is rather obvious but doesn't occur to many people. If you dominate an era, that means you are winning just about every slam. This means that no matter how good the other players are, they won't rack up lots of slams. That doesn't show that the other players aren't good. It simply shows that the dominating player is far better.
Here's the example I haven always given. Let's say that somehow there was a perfect tennis player created. This perfect player plays in an era with Federer, Sampras, Laver, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, Agassi, Becker, Edberg, and Wilander. Obviously, this is an ABSURDLY strong era. However, this is a PERFECT tennis player, so he still wins about 3 slams a year, leaving none of those 10 all time greats with many slams. Does this make those players weak? Absolutely not. Number of slams won is NOT solely indicative of a player's ability, but rather how much better he is than those around him. In our case, Federer was so much better than everyone else (except on clay where Nadal was better than everyone else) that no one else got many slams. That does NOT mean they are any worse than players in previous eras who did win slams.
Let's delve into this a bit more.
- Federer beat Marat Safin 4 times in slams. Safin would probably have 3 or 4 slams instead of 2 if Federer wasn't there.
- He beat Lleyton Hewitt 6 times at high rounds of slams. Hewitt would probably have about 5 slams if Federer wasn't there.
- He beat Andy Roddick 7 times (probably will be 8 after tomorrow) in the quarters or above of slams. Roddick would have won these slams without Federer there. He would probably have 6 or 7 slams overall (especially given this Wimbledon) if Federer wasn't there.
- He beat Nalbandian 3 times in high rounds. I think Nalbandian would have won a slam or two without Federer.
- Federer has probably robbed Haas of 1 or 2 slams as well.
- He has already beaten Djokovic 3 times at high levels of slams, so I would say Djokovic would probaby have 3 slams already without Federer.
- Del Potro and Murray are just getting started, but both would probably have slams (09 FO and 08 US respectively) if Federer wasn't there.
Basically, the point is that without Federer, these players who people say are bad because they didnt win many slams WOULD have won many slams. They WOULD be considered great. To say that Federer's opponents were weak because Federer always won is tantamount to saying "Federer is not the greatest because he dominated everyone too much." It is ridiculous.
3. Right now the lower ranked players are better than in years prior. This makes the higher ranked players SEEM less good when they are not.
The fact is that the level of the lower ranked players in this era is undoubtedly better than in years past. Anyone, including Pete Sampras, would/does agree with this. This means that it is way easier for a top player to lose in early rounds of a slam, because they are simply facing higher quality players in early rounds. What this means is that it is a lot harder for any single player to consistently get to higher rounds of slams. As a result, the top players dont SEEM as consistent as top players in previous decades because they have lost early sometimes. For this reason, people here call those top players lame. That is not the case. It is just that the difference between top ranked and lower ranked players is not as big as before. That does NOT in any way mean that the top ranked players are not as good as previous decades' top ranked players.
CONCLUSION: In today's era there is a smaller gap between top players and lower ranked players. This makes it harder for the top players to look consistent. Furthermore, Federer has been so far ahead of everyone (except Nadal) that even the more consistent players didnt win many slams, as Federer took them. These things BY NO MEANS show that today's top players are weak. It simply shows that the overall talent pool is higher AND that Federer was head and shoulders above everyone else. The idea that his opponents were weak is basically saying "Since he was better than everyone in his era, he must not be the best ever." What I just said applies mostly to the older players that Federer beat. In terms of up and coming players, Federer's victories over them will look more impressive in many years after they are retired with many victories to their names too. This is not a weak era.
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
bojangles je napisao/la:
Marušiću,ku**a ti ne kužiš u tenisu
Ono što je nekad bilo bolje je to da su mlađi ljudi bili bolje odgojeni i nisu ljeta provodili na internetu već su ganjali strankinje po Jadranu.Sve drugo bolje je danas.
Federer,genijalni Federer, imao je sreću (ili nesreću) da u zenitu svoje karijere (2003.-2006.)igra s potonulim Hewittom,prejebanim Safinom,polovnjakom Roddickom,polovnjakom Phillipoussisom i ostarjelim Agassiem.Nadala,Đokovića i Murraya tada bilo nije.I nikada nećemo saznati što bi bilo kad bi bilo ali stoji da,ponovit ću-genijalni i sjajni RF,pravu vrhunsku konkurenciju dobiva tek 2007.
S druge strane,Borgu je stalno u vrat puhao McEnroe,obojici Connors;i obratno.Tri vrhunska pa se ti opusti.Još i Lenda da ne zaboravim,koji je igrao 8 finala US za redom.
Agassiu je u vrat puhao Sampras,i obratno.Sve su to vrhunski igrači.
Ovi protiv kojih je,sjajni i genijalni RF,ostvario 7,8 ili 9 od svojih 15 GS,nisu igrači tog ranga.
Vidi cijeli citat
Kao prvo, Borg i McEnroe nisu ista generacija, McEnroe osvojio prvi GS 5 godina nakon Borga.
Drugo (boldano), od početka 2007 Federer je osvojio 6 GS-a (od 11), te igrao 10 finala. Nadal, Đoković i Murray zajedno osvojili 5. Dakle , Federer je u doba svoje najveće dominacije ( '04-'06) osvojio 8 GS, a s "pravom" konkurencijom bi u istom vremenskom periodu mogao osvojiti 7 (ako računamo predstojeći US Open). Znači, nije za bacit, jel ?
Da bi demantirao te priče o konkurenciji, Federer će morati popraviti međusobni omjer s današnjim konkurentima. Iako će ga većina ljudi smatrati najboljim svih vremena i da danas prestane igrati, dok to ne popravi neki kao bojangles će ipak imati pravo sumnjati.
Gledajte realno, nema logike da igrač kojeg se smatra najboljim svih vremena protiv nekoga ima tako izrazito negativan omjer: 7-13 protiv Nadala i 2-6 protiv Murraya. Može se dozvoliti neki blagi zaostatak, ali ovo je prilično uvjerljivo da bi itko mogao reći da je slučajno. Ne mora ih nužno prestići, ali bar smanjiti na neku pristojnu razliku, od recimo dvije pobjede zaostatka.
Protiv Đokovića je nakupio pobjeda dok je ovaj bio tinejdžer i tek se probijao prema vrhu, ali od trenutka kad je ovaj napunio 20 godina i ušao u top 10 (otprilike se vremenski poklopilo jedno s drugim) omjer je 4-3 za Đokovića.
Sampras i Borg ni protiv koga nisu imali negativan omjer. Ne mogu se sjetit ni u nekom drugom sportu sličnog primjera, da se nekog igrača ili momčad smatra najboljim ikad a da ih je netko drugi u većini međusobnih susreta pobjeđivao.
Gledajte realno, nema logike da igrač kojeg se smatra najboljim svih vremena protiv nekoga ima tako izrazito negativan omjer: 7-13 protiv Nadala i 2-6 protiv Murraya. Može se dozvoliti neki blagi zaostatak, ali ovo je prilično uvjerljivo da bi itko mogao reći da je slučajno. Ne mora ih nužno prestići, ali bar smanjiti na neku pristojnu razliku, od recimo dvije pobjede zaostatka.
Protiv Đokovića je nakupio pobjeda dok je ovaj bio tinejdžer i tek se probijao prema vrhu, ali od trenutka kad je ovaj napunio 20 godina i ušao u top 10 (otprilike se vremenski poklopilo jedno s drugim) omjer je 4-3 za Đokovića.
Sampras i Borg ni protiv koga nisu imali negativan omjer. Ne mogu se sjetit ni u nekom drugom sportu sličnog primjera, da se nekog igrača ili momčad smatra najboljim ikad a da ih je netko drugi u većini međusobnih susreta pobjeđivao.
sve prolazi sve se mijenja, idu dani idu godine, samo Zrinjski ostaje ponos moje Hercegovine
kinže Rogeru,Borg (6.6.56.) i Mac (16.2.59.) jesu ista teniska generacija jer su se od 1978.-1981.,dakle skoro četri sezone na svom vrhuncu,opako kefali i takmičili.Stoji da je Mac svoj prvi GS osvojio 1979. (a Borg RG 1974.)ali on je već ranije bio autentični genije i vrhunski igrač.
hajde da razlučimo redom i taksativno protiv koga je pojedinačno i na kakvoj podlozi od 2003.-2006. RF osvajao GS naslove...mislim da će argumenti ipak ići meni u prilog
Because of a few songs wherein I spoke of their mystery-women have been exceptionally kind to my old age
dr.Damir je napisao/la:
Da bi demantirao te priče o konkurenciji, Federer će morati popraviti međusobni omjer s današnjim konkurentima. Iako će ga većina ljudi smatrati najboljim svih vremena i da danas prestane igrati, dok to ne popravi neki kao bojangles će ipak imati pravo sumnjati. Gledajte realno, nema logike da igrač kojeg se smatra najboljim svih vremena protiv nekoga ima tako izrazito negativan omjer: 7-13 protiv Nadala i 2-6 protiv Murraya. Može se dozvoliti neki blagi zaostatak, ali ovo je prilično uvjerljivo da bi itko mogao reći da je slučajno. Ne mora ih nužno prestići, ali bar smanjiti na neku pristojnu razliku, od recimo dvije pobjede zaostatka.
Protiv Đokovića je nakupio pobjeda dok je ovaj bio tinejdžer i tek se probijao prema vrhu, ali od trenutka kad je ovaj napunio 20 godina i ušao u top 10 (otprilike se vremenski poklopilo jedno s drugim) omjer je 4-3 za Đokovića.
Sampras i Borg ni protiv koga nisu imali negativan omjer. Ne mogu se sjetit ni u nekom drugom sportu sličnog primjera, da se nekog igrača ili momčad smatra najboljim ikad a da ih je netko drugi u većini međusobnih susreta pobjeđivao.
Vidi cijeli citat
potpisujem doktore,svaka čast na argumentima
Because of a few songs wherein I spoke of their mystery-women have been exceptionally kind to my old age
Ne znam hoćeš li mi vjerovati, ali bio sam nešto napisao u zagradi pa sam kasije izbrisao jer mi se činilo nepotrebnim. Napisao sam da nisam sasvim siguran da nisu ni protiv koga imali negativan omjer, ali ako i jesu onda je to bilo rezultatima 1-2 ili 2-3, tako nešto, ne ovako uvjerljivo. Uostalom, napisao sam da se Federeru može "oprostiti" blago negativan omjer, ali 7-13 i 2-6 to nije.
Edit: Ima i Federer 1-2 protiv Hrbatya, ali to nisam uzeo u obzir, jer je to premala razlika i premalo mečeva. Smiješno je to računat.
Edit: Ima i Federer 1-2 protiv Hrbatya, ali to nisam uzeo u obzir, jer je to premala razlika i premalo mečeva. Smiješno je to računat.
[uredio dr.Damir - 07. srpnja 2009. u 15:25]
sve prolazi sve se mijenja, idu dani idu godine, samo Zrinjski ostaje ponos moje Hercegovine
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