Rusko - ukrajinski rat

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madmax17
madmax17
Većinski vlasnik Foruma
Pristupio: 28.04.2007.
Poruka: 30.186
23. studenog 2025. u 21:48

 

Senators Say US Plan is Really a Russian Document

Don Beacon: Some people better get fired on Monday for the gross buffoonery we just
witnessed over the last four days. This hurt our country and undermined
our alliances, and encouraged our adversaries.

 

Velika greška, rip Usa demokracija ajmo dalje bez njih 😂

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
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Vilenjak
Vilenjak
Moderator
Pristupio: 10.11.2003.
Poruka: 92.836
23. studenog 2025. u 22:21
Da vam bude lakše usporediti razlike između ruskog/amaričkog i EU prijedloga.....
13 temeljnih razlika između planova Europe i SAD-a za Ukrajinu
Agencija Reuters je objavila puni tekst europskog mirovnog plana, koji je ranije bio poznat kroz sažetak The Washington Posta. Pripremile su ga Velika Britanija, Francuska i Njemačka, a kao osnovu uzima američki plan od 28 točaka, no neke su izmijenjene, a neke izostavljene. Između planova postoji 13 temeljnih razlika.
1️⃣ Uklonjena je obveza da se NATO neće širiti. U američkom planu točka je glasila: „Rusija se neće širiti na susjedne zemlje, a NATO se neće širiti dalje“.
2️⃣ Veličina ukrajinske vojske ograničena je na 800.000 vojnika umjesto 600.000 u američkom planu.
3️⃣ Ostavljena je mogućnost ulaska Ukrajine u NATO. U europskom planu ova točka glasi: „Ulazak Ukrajine u NATO ovisi o konsenzusu članica NATO-a, koji ne postoji“. U američkom planu je navedeno: „Ukrajina se slaže da u svojem ustavu zabilježi da neće ući u NATO, a NATO se slaže da u svoje statute uključi odredbu da Ukrajina u budućnosti neće biti primljena“.
4️⃣ NATO neće raspoređivati snage u Ukrajini samo u mirnodopsko vrijeme, stoji u točki 8 europskog plana. U američkom planu stoji da „NATO pristaje da ne raspoređuje snage u Ukrajini“.
5️⃣ Ukrajina dobiva „jamstvo SAD-a koje odražava članak 5“ (napad na jednog člana smatra se napadom na sve). U američkom planu u točki 10 jednostavno piše: „Jamstvo SAD-a“.
6️⃣ Europski plan ne zabranjuje Ukrajini da izvodi udare na Moskvu i Sankt Peterburg. U američkom planu taj zahtjev postoji u točki 10.
7️⃣ Rusija će se postupno reintegrirati u svjetsku ekonomiju, stoji u točki 13 europskog plana. U američkom planu riječ „postupno“ je izostavljena.
8️⃣ Europa je odbacila američku verziju obnove Ukrajine. U europskom planu stoji: „Ukrajina će biti u potpunosti obnovljena i dobiti financijsku naknadu, uključujući i iz ruskih suverenih sredstava koja će ostati zamrznuta dok rusija ne nadoknadi štetu Ukrajini“. Američki plan detaljno opisuje kamo će ići zamrznuta sredstva.
9️⃣ Ukrajina i Europa ući će u skupinu s SAD-om i rusijom koja će nadzirati poštivanje mirovnog sporazuma. U američkom dokumentu spominju se samo SAD i Rusija.
🔟 U europskom planu stoji da „Ukrajina prihvaća pravila EU o vjerskoj toleranciji i zaštiti jezičnih manjina“. U američkom planu ta je točka detaljnije opisana: strane se obvezuju mijenjati obrazovne programe, iskoreniti rasizam, ukinuti diskriminatorne mjere u medijima i obrazovanju te se odreći „nacističke ideologije“.
1️⃣1️⃣ U europskom planu stoji da „pregovori o teritorijalnoj razmjeni započet će s linije razdvajanja“. Nema drugih detalja. U američkom planu Krim, Luganska i Donjecka oblast bit će de facto priznate kao ruske, u Hersonskoj i Zaporoškoj oblasti borbe se zamrzavaju na liniji razdvajanja. Osim toga, predviđa se povlačenje ukrajinskih snaga iz dijela Donjecke oblasti koju rusija nije zauzela, a ta će zona biti neutralna demilitarizirana tampon zona pod ruskom kontrolom.
1️⃣2️⃣ Nema točnog vremena održavanja izbora u Ukrajini. U europskom planu stoji da će se održati „što je prije moguće nakon potpisivanja mirovnog sporazuma“. U američkom planu se spominje 100 dana.
1️⃣3️⃣ U europskom planu nema spomena amnestije za sve ratne zločine, kao u američkom planu.
Domovine sin
10
nik
nik
Dokazano ovisan
Pristupio: 01.04.2004.
Poruka: 17.136
24. studenog 2025. u 08:39

ako nekoga zanima, dost dobra mapa za trenutno stanje fronte: 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1jr8PSIJFsRWyI5f8HqXRWIODpvg7TBk&ll=48.187684700649%2C37.406442450805&z=10

Mi gradimo prugu, pruga gradi nas!
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madmax17
madmax17
Većinski vlasnik Foruma
Pristupio: 28.04.2007.
Poruka: 30.186
24. studenog 2025. u 09:26
BRUSSELS, Nov 23 (Reuters) - Below is the text of a European counter-proposal to the United States' draft 28-point Ukraine peace plan, seen by Reuters on Sunday.
The counter-proposal, drafted by Europe's E3 powers of Britain, France and Germany, takes the U.S. plan as its basis but then goes through it point by point with suggested changes and deletions.
The text is as follows:
1. Ukraine's sovereignty to be reconfirmed.
2. There will be a total and complete non-aggression agreement reached between Russia and Ukraine and NATO. All ambiguities from the last 30 years will be resolved.
(Point 3 of U.S. plan is deleted. A draft of that plan seen by Reuters said: "There will be the expectation that Russia will not invade its neighbours and NATO will not expand further.")
4. After a peace agreement is signed, a dialogue between Russia and NATO will convene to address all security concerns and create a de-escalatory environment to ensure global security and increase the opportunity for connectivity and future economic opportunity.
5. Ukraine will receive robust Security Guarantees
6. Size of Ukraine military to be capped at 800,000 in peacetime.
7. Ukraine joining NATO depends on consensus of NATO members, which does not exist.
8. NATO agrees not to permanently station troops under its command in Ukraine in peacetime.
9. NATO fighter jets will be stationed in Poland
10. US guarantee that mirrors Article 5
a. US to receive compensation for the guarantee
b. If Ukraine invades Russia, it forfeits the guarantee
c. If Russia invades Ukraine, in addition to a robust coordinated military response, all global sanctions will be restored and any kind of recognition for the new territory and all other benefits from this agreement will be withdrawn.
11. Ukraine is eligible for EU membership and will get short-term preferred market access to Europe while this is being evaluated
12. Robust Global Redevelopment Package for Ukraine including but not limited to:
a. Creation of Ukraine Development fund to invest in high growth industries including technology, data centres and Al efforts
b. The United States will partner with Ukraine to jointly restore, grow, modernize and operate Ukraine's gas infrastructure, which includes its pipeline and storage facilities
c. A joint effort to redevelop areas impacted by the war to restore, redevelop and modernize cities and residential areas
d. Infrastructure development
e. Mineral and natural resource extraction
f. A special financing package will be developed by the World Bank to provide financing to accelerate these efforts.
13. Russia to be progressively re-integrated into the global economy
a. Sanction relief will be discussed and agreed upon in phases and on a case-by-case basis.
b. The United States will enter into a long-term Economic Cooperation Agreement to pursue mutual development in the areas of energy, natural resources, infrastructure, AI, datacenters, rare earths, joint projects in the Arctic, as well as various other mutually beneficial corporate opportunities.
c. Russia to be invited back into the G8
14. Ukraine will be fully reconstructed and compensated financially, including through Russian sovereign assets that will remain frozen until Russia compensates damage to Ukraine.
15. A joint Security taskforce will be established with the participation of US, Ukraine, Russia and the Europeans to promote and enforce all of the provisions of this agreement
16. Russia will legislatively enshrine a non-aggression policy towards Europe and Ukraine
17. The United States and Russia agree to extend nuclear non-proliferation and control treaties, including Fair Start
18. Ukraine agrees to remain a non-nuclear state under the NPT
19. The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant will be restarted under supervision of the IAEA, and the produced power shall be shared equitably in a 50-50 split between Russia and Ukraine.
20. Ukraine will adopt EU rules on religious tolerance and the protection of linguistic minorities.
21. Territories
Ukraine commits not to recover its occupied sovereign territory through military means. Negotiations on territorial swaps will start from the Line of Contact.
22. Once future territorial arrangements have been agreed, both the Russian Federation and Ukraine undertake not to change these arrangements by force. Any security guarantees will not apply if there is a breach of this obligation
23. Russia shall not obstruct Ukraine's use of the Dnieper River for purposes of commercial activities, and agreements will be reached for grain shipments to move freely through the Black Sea
24. A humanitarian committee will be established to resolve open issues:
a. All remaining prisoners and bodies will be exchanged on the principle of All for All
b. All civilian detainees and hostages will be returned, including children
c. There will be a family reunification program
d. Provisions will be made to address the suffering of victims from the conflict
25. Ukraine will hold elections as soon as possible after the signing of the peace agreement.
26. Provision will be made to address the suffering of victims of the conflict.
27. This agreement will be legally binding. Its implementation will be monitored and guaranteed by a Board of Peace, chaired by President Donald J. Trump. There will be
penalties for violation.
28. Upon all sides agreeing to this memorandum, a ceasefire will be immediately effective upon both parties withdrawing to the agreed upon points for the implementation of the agreement to begin. Ceasefire modalities, including monitoring, will be agreed by both parties under US supervision.
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
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Frane iz Omiša
Frane iz Omiša
Potencijal za velika djela
Pristupio: 17.12.2021.
Poruka: 2.072
24. studenog 2025. u 09:49

a šta je s rusima? 

ko ovod pregovara? Europa u ime Ukrajine? SAD u ime Rusije?

 

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madmax17
madmax17
Većinski vlasnik Foruma
Pristupio: 28.04.2007.
Poruka: 30.186
24. studenog 2025. u 09:57

Nezna se više ko koga 

 

Rusi pišu 'mirovni' plan za mutave Magaovce 😂

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
00
Osmijeh Darija Dabca
Osmijeh Darija Dabca
Nedokazan i sumnjiv
Pristupio: 17.06.2025.
Poruka: 35
24. studenog 2025. u 10:11

madmax17 je napisao/la:

Nezna se više ko koga 

 

Rusi pišu 'mirovni' plan za mutave Magaovce 😂

Vidi cijeli citat


Nije baš ni da Europa pršti inteligencijom. U cijelom ovom 4D šahu, jedino je uloga Ukrajine jasna - beje je kako 'ko stigne. 

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madmax17
madmax17
Većinski vlasnik Foruma
Pristupio: 28.04.2007.
Poruka: 30.186
24. studenog 2025. u 13:45

 

Finska zaključava granicu 😅 nema šale, 'mreža' ispod zemlje, senzori, kamere..

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
00
madmax17
madmax17
Većinski vlasnik Foruma
Pristupio: 28.04.2007.
Poruka: 30.186
24. studenog 2025. u 18:43

Russia Claims North Korean Forces Have Reached the Frontline in Ukraine for the First Time


Quote:
Russian pro-war bloggers are claiming that soldiers from North Korea have allegedly arrived in Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia region and may be preparing to fight near the town of Huliaypole on November 23. None of these claims has been independently verified.

According to a Russian Telegram channel, a contingent described as “representatives of friendly DPRK forces” reportedly reached the frontline after completing, they claim, a two-month training program on Russian training grounds.

Head of Ukraine’s Center for Countering Disinformation, Andrii Kovalenko, reported that as of 9 a.m. on November 24, no North Korean troops were spotted in the Zaporizhzhia region.

“After two months of training, representatives of friendly North Korea have arrived at the front. Guess the direction. It’s a field, and you can ‘walk’ there,” a Russian military blogger wrote.

This refers to a Ukrainian town, Huliaypole, which directly translates as a “walk-about field.”

 

Opet Koreanci.

"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!" 🎸⚽🏀🎨
00
nik
nik
Dokazano ovisan
Pristupio: 01.04.2004.
Poruka: 17.136
25. studenog 2025. u 10:15

zanimljivo, ukrajinski vojnici su u pokrovsku jos i to dosta duboko prema zapadu...

Mi gradimo prugu, pruga gradi nas!
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